⇱ Index page

The Internationalist Archive

Mariam Dhawale is the Secretary-General of the All India Democratic Women's Association (AIDWA), a national women’s organisation in India with about 10 million members in 23 states – mostly working-class women of different castes and religions. AIDWA fights patriarchal capitalism through the prism of women's daily lives – health, water, food, gendered violence. Dhawale has been a driving force behind some of AIDWA's most successful campaigns, including those against violence against women, gender discrimination, and for women's rights to land and livelihood. She is also known for her association with the Communist Party of India (Marxist).

For Issue #21 of The Internationalist, Daniel Kopp — the coordinator of Progressive International’s campaign to ‘Make Amazon Pay’ — interviews Dhawale on how AIDWA connects local everyday struggles to broader political campaigning for rights through political education, explaining how the capitalist system leads to exploitation and targeting women at every turn.

Daniel: AIDWA organises the poorest and most marginalised women in Indian society. Could you speak in a bit more detail about your work with AIDWA?

Mariam: The All India Democratic Women's Association takes up day-to-day issues of women, as well as policy-level and government-level issues. Our main thrust is to organise women to fight for themselves and to educate them regarding the impact certain policies have on their lives. In the process of organising them, they also learn what their strength is. The problems of, for example, inflation, unemployment or violence are not issues that only one single woman faces; these are the issues of thousands of women. And it is through struggle that they realise the importance of coming together to solve a problem. We bring together people from all communities and help rebuild unity in India, which our current government is trying hard to break. We have different kinds of castes, religions, and people. But all the poor are affected similarly.

Daniel: You speak about turning local everyday struggles into broader political struggles for rights. Can you talk a little bit more about how your organisation tries to link the two?

Mariam: Of course. If you don't get water or if you don't get food, then you see the shopkeeper as an enemy who is not giving you sustenance. But we try to link the problem of food shortage, or the rise in prices, with the government’s policy on food grains. Locally, while your problem is clearly visible, fighting against a central government or fighting against a policy is very abstract. It's not an enemy that you can see in front of you. So we create a link between the two by explaining the policy, and try to make women understand that there’s no point in fighting only against the shopkeeper, they also have to fight against the government to change the policy. Firstly, this process makes them politically more aware. Secondly, they realise that they are not alone in their problems, but that there are many people who are facing similar issues. 

Daniel: So political education is the crucial ingredient?

Mariam: Yes, because ultimately, it's our political system that leads to exploitation. The basic thrust of a capitalist system is to enhance profits. And in that system, women are targeted in every possible way. If you need cheap labour, you target women because they are willing to work for less money than men as they have to keep the fires at home burning, and they can't see their children sleeping hungry. When we are organising political discussions, we explain to women the meaning of capitalism, the meaning of exploitation, the meaning of patriarchy.

We also explain how patriarchy has to be resisted, which often means speaking about religion. In India, patriarchy gets coloured by religion because people claim a certain faith decrees that women must serve. Even women think that because they’re women, ultimately, they have to serve. When we explain patriarchy to them, we make sure we are not talking against religion. Religion is a personal thing. But religion doesn’t say that you have to suffer violence or you have to suffer discrimination or inequality. In fact, religion talks of justice. All religions talk of justice. 

We have educational classes and debates with women, especially among those who belong to the most marginalised sections of society. The reason is that there are women who don't regularly read because, firstly, they don't get the time — they're continuously caught up in some sort of labour activity — and, secondly, there's a large number of women who are still not able to read and write.

But these educational classes help, and they pick it up quickly because, at the end of the day, these are their day-to-day life struggles. 

Daniel: What you’re saying reminds me of the Kurdish liberation struggle, which centres around women’s liberation because they are understood as the first oppressed class. In your view, what’s women’s role in the anti-capitalist struggle?

Mariam: Women have a very important place in building a socialist world because their emancipation is directly linked to the end of the system of exploitation. Since women's labour is regarded as cheap labour that can be used to enhance profits, the emancipation of women is not possible unless the system of exploitation ends. The idea of women as individual human beings in their own right and not just as an appendage can only be realised in a socialist system. A socialist system provides the recognition of a woman in her own right. That is why laws in socialist systems also help a woman to come out from the domestic sphere into the economic sphere. In a capitalist system, that’s impossible because domestic duties are supposed to be done by the woman. So she performs both duties. If she goes out to work, then she comes back home, and she works again. If she cannot cope with that, then she leaves her job. So that means she gives up her financial independence — and no human being can be free without having financial independence.

Women have a lot at stake to fight against the exploitative capitalist system. This is not just about freeing them from the bondage of economic exploitation but even social and cultural practices that demean a woman’s status. In a capitalist system, women’s subordination is sustained, so she doesn't fight for equal rights. In a socialist system, equality becomes her right. In countries that have socialist systems, we see that women are an integral part of the entire economic structure. We have seen it in Cuba, we've seen it in China, we've seen it in Vietnam. The socialist system unleashes the strength and the capacities that women have. If women are allowed to reach the higher stages of education in India, they would be scientists, they would be lawyers, they would be teachers, they would be pilots. But so much of human resource is wasted and kept stunted so that this exploitative system can survive. It is inhuman.

Daniel: Since you’ve mentioned the role of education, under the Modi government, education in India is becoming increasingly expensive and inaccessible. So the fight for decommodifying education is also a feminist fight?

Mariam: Absolutely, we are seeing — especially after the pandemic and the lockdown — that many girls have lost out on education. They have not gone back to school. With education becoming more expensive, it will be an even bigger setback, which is why we are fighting against it. The government is also changing the syllabus, introducing certain chapters in textbooks clearly influenced by the value system of patriarchy, speaking of the duties and responsibilities of women as women. An education system is supposed to enhance your thinking to open up the world to you, not to shrink the world in your mind. But in India, the Modi government wants to shrink the world.

Daniel: Speaking about the government: in the 2019 elections, Modi’s party, the BJP, has received the highest vote share by women of all political parties. Can you explain why that happened?

Mariam: With his nationalistic jargon, Modi has laid the ground for communal polarisation between Hindus and Muslims in India. Now, that means you are naturally also polarising women along religious lines. The same has happened in the All India Democratic Women's Association. We try our best to keep unity because we know very well that unity is extremely important to further the struggle. At the same time, the Modi government is also aware that dividing us is essential for them to carry out their agenda.

The BJP is the richest party in India, and they get millions and millions of rupees from the corporate sector. They distribute small gifts, money, liquor, and so on during elections. It is natural for someone poor, who doesn’t identify with the system because the system doesn’t help them, to take the money that is offered to them because it will help them survive for a few more days.

Take the Uttar Pradesh elections. Before the elections, they sent wheat and rice bags with the prime minister’s face on them to every household in the villages. As a result, women voted for them. But what happened after they won the election? They stopped the public distribution system. Now, women are very angry and they feel cheated. We recently had our conference there, and the women told us: ‘The BJP sent us those bags of grain to buy votes, and now, for the next five years, they have cancelled our ration card.’ So for five years, they must bear the cost of a wrong vote. After five years, what they will do again is yet to be seen. 

There’s one more important thing to remember: the BJP doesn’t have the majority of the vote in India. They got 37 per cent of the vote, but they received 80 per cent of the seats. They are not speaking for India because India has not given them the majority.

Daniel: The next Indian elections are coming up in 2024. What is the role of your organisation and the women's struggle in mobilising and building momentum against the Modi government?

Mariam: We need to unite all forces against this communal and regressive government. As long as many progressive forces come together, the votes won't get divided. That should be the main strategy. Now that process has started, and it will take some shape because there are so many political parties, each with its own interests. I sense that — except for the left — they are still not able to comprehend the dangers fully. Moreover, most parties in India have, at some point, allied with the BJP to form a government. Fortunately, many are not in alliance with them today. So let’s see how things shape up. But we hope that the 2024 elections will lead towards a better India, because having them stay in power means destroying what India is today, a secular democratic nation. And that’s a threat to every Indian citizen.

The Internationalist Archive